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quietann(This is all edited from replies I made to people who responded to my previous post.)
Transit and Other Lifestyle Issues
I'm aware of the transit issues, but ...![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
deguspice has asked me to point out that we and most other folks in the burbs include in invites the nearest commuter rail stop and an offer to retrieve people from it, as well as crash space and trying to arrange return rides for the carless. Very few people take us up on it.
I know many many people in Camberville who have cars; in fact amongst the susboids I know, probably about 2/3 do (though some, aslyonesse pointed out, share their cars with others.) I really think it's an attitude issue. One friend from Somerville drove up to Lowell for an event, after being told that Lowell was "soooo far away". He was amazed to find that it took him only 35 minutes to get there. And I will agree that suburbanites are more likely to just get in their cars and drive, because for most of us, that's the only way to get anywhere.
yes, I do suffer from slight pangs of guilt about this non-eco-friendly part of my life. Those who knew me when I lived in Waltham may remember that I often took public transit when I needed to go in towards Cambridge or Boston; I even took the MBTA buses, which a lot of Cambervillians won't get near. And in my current job search, one of my priorities is that I want to be able to commute by train and T.
On the other hand, Camberville just seems overcrowded, noisy, and overpriced to me. I wonder how many of the Cambervillians have either lived in the city all their lives, or grew up in suburbs and hated it so much they vowed never to return. I grew up in a semi-suburban part of San Diego, probably equivalent to Melrose in terms of socio-economics and density. Whatever misery I suffered there had nothing to do with it being a suburb.
The Stow Party in Particular
The Stow party was hosted by people probably known only to the real old-time MIT folks (and in fact, most of the people I knew were exactly that -- lillibet, tom & steve, P&F&kylie were all there.) Steve and Amy were around MIT in the early to mid 1980s, and then went to California and only just returned. That does partially explain the low turnout. It turns out that almost everyone else I knew was at J's private-invite thing in Somerville, and of the people I've talked to about it, almost all assumed that we were invited, but we weren't.
The Purpose of "Mob Scene" Parties, and a Slight Whine
I've been using the big parties to stay caught up with folks, but it's really not a very satisfying way to do that. Most of my interactions at the big parties are really superficial, which is why I often end up in a corner reading or crocheting. I just don't feel like I am "getting anywhere" with whoever I actually want to talk with.
More recently, the people I'd most like to talk with at parties are too busy with their partners or the people they are already closer to, so I don't try too hard. (e.g. the couch at the North Reading party was overladen with people like this, but it was pretty clear that there was no room for me, either physically or conversationally. I finally just wandered away, because I felt like they were being pretty rude to me -- though not deliberately -- and found someone who actually *wanted* to have a conversation with me and wasn't preoccupied with cuddling her sweetie or telling in-jokes to her nearest companions.
I told our therapist about the couch, and used the term "people I am really close to" to describe the people on it, and she didn't think they sounded like "close friends". I'm re-evaluating "who my friends really are" and "what it means to have/be a real friend" now... and trying to be less passive about seeking out people who actually have time for me. Trying to be close to someone who everyone wants to be close to is pretty counterproductive.
Transit and Other Lifestyle Issues
I'm aware of the transit issues, but ...
deguspice has asked me to point out that we and most other folks in the burbs include in invites the nearest commuter rail stop and an offer to retrieve people from it, as well as crash space and trying to arrange return rides for the carless. Very few people take us up on it. I know many many people in Camberville who have cars; in fact amongst the susboids I know, probably about 2/3 do (though some, as
lyonesse pointed out, share their cars with others.) I really think it's an attitude issue. One friend from Somerville drove up to Lowell for an event, after being told that Lowell was "soooo far away". He was amazed to find that it took him only 35 minutes to get there. And I will agree that suburbanites are more likely to just get in their cars and drive, because for most of us, that's the only way to get anywhere. yes, I do suffer from slight pangs of guilt about this non-eco-friendly part of my life. Those who knew me when I lived in Waltham may remember that I often took public transit when I needed to go in towards Cambridge or Boston; I even took the MBTA buses, which a lot of Cambervillians won't get near. And in my current job search, one of my priorities is that I want to be able to commute by train and T.
On the other hand, Camberville just seems overcrowded, noisy, and overpriced to me. I wonder how many of the Cambervillians have either lived in the city all their lives, or grew up in suburbs and hated it so much they vowed never to return. I grew up in a semi-suburban part of San Diego, probably equivalent to Melrose in terms of socio-economics and density. Whatever misery I suffered there had nothing to do with it being a suburb.
The Stow Party in Particular
The Stow party was hosted by people probably known only to the real old-time MIT folks (and in fact, most of the people I knew were exactly that -- lillibet, tom & steve, P&F&kylie were all there.) Steve and Amy were around MIT in the early to mid 1980s, and then went to California and only just returned. That does partially explain the low turnout. It turns out that almost everyone else I knew was at J's private-invite thing in Somerville, and of the people I've talked to about it, almost all assumed that we were invited, but we weren't.
The Purpose of "Mob Scene" Parties, and a Slight Whine
I've been using the big parties to stay caught up with folks, but it's really not a very satisfying way to do that. Most of my interactions at the big parties are really superficial, which is why I often end up in a corner reading or crocheting. I just don't feel like I am "getting anywhere" with whoever I actually want to talk with.
More recently, the people I'd most like to talk with at parties are too busy with their partners or the people they are already closer to, so I don't try too hard. (e.g. the couch at the North Reading party was overladen with people like this, but it was pretty clear that there was no room for me, either physically or conversationally. I finally just wandered away, because I felt like they were being pretty rude to me -- though not deliberately -- and found someone who actually *wanted* to have a conversation with me and wasn't preoccupied with cuddling her sweetie or telling in-jokes to her nearest companions.
I told our therapist about the couch, and used the term "people I am really close to" to describe the people on it, and she didn't think they sounded like "close friends". I'm re-evaluating "who my friends really are" and "what it means to have/be a real friend" now... and trying to be less passive about seeking out people who actually have time for me. Trying to be close to someone who everyone wants to be close to is pretty counterproductive.
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the slight whine
Date: 2003-11-03 07:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-11-03 07:29 pm (UTC)Myself, I live in Belmont (near Waverley Square). I bicycle to some events, and drive to most of the night activities. For me, choosing between two options, comparative transit time becomes a factor when there's more than a 10 or 15 minute difference (which is the case for Stow vs. west Somerville). Otherwise not.
Lifestyle: I like my current location (though not the circumstances that have brought me to it)-- it's pretty convenient to semi-urban locations like Camberville and JP as well as suburban places like Carlisle or Needham. Having lived in Brighton, Somerville, and Medford (not to mention Chicago), I have mixed feelings about urban living-- I like the convenience and sense-of-things-happening, but I don't like the high prices, crowds, parking problems, crime, and general stress. (And then there was Winter Hill, which I found to have all the disadvantages of an urban location without the convenience. Bleah!)
Stow vs. Somerville: Huh, I didn't realize J.'s event was private either. Sorry about that.
Slight whine: I don't have anything specific to say, because I've been pondering a lot of similar issues lately, and I haven't sorted it all out yet. Suffice to say, you're not the only one alone in the crowd. :-)
no subject
Date: 2003-11-03 07:35 pm (UTC)Wish I'd interacted with you more at the chocolate party at our house... I feel like I just sort of hovered around the edges, not really getting into any conversations. Sunday nights people come over for gaming, which I don't always join in on... maybe some Sunday afternoon or evening we could hang out together? It tends to be the best day for me for a variety of reasons.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-03 08:31 pm (UTC)OPN is still good for me, but I have given up on Diesel, because it's too noisy and a bit too much of a pick-up scene for my tastes.
I'd like to get together sometime.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-04 05:41 am (UTC)Want to come by tonight? I have to run home and vote (not that I have a clue about my local candidates *sigh*) but after that I'm free.
tonight?
Date: 2003-11-04 10:22 am (UTC)I came to that same realization myself a while ago
Date: 2003-11-03 07:41 pm (UTC)In any case, years ago when I first came here the suspects crowd consisted of a LOT of very single people. Lots of sex was had (Not by me, sadly :) but the number of dedicated couples was very small.
Now we're all older, and everybody and their uncle has hooked up. Everybody pretty much spends their days with their SO, and while people are still willing to come together for social gatherings, as you say it's on a somewhat more superficial level.
This is neither a bad thing nor a good thing - nothing in life ever stays exactly the same over time.
WRT public transit - you left two important groups:
1) Those who live in the city because they work there and the commute in from the 'burbs can SUCK depending on which burb we're talking.
2) Those who are, like me, essentially forced to live on the T because of physical limitations that keep us from driving.
I think the thing with parties that are very far out like Stowe is that even if it's commuter rail accessible you're still talking an additional 3 hours out of your day just to get to the party and back (assuming a 1 hour commuter rail ride, which Stowe would be in my estimation). This is a non trivial trip and nothing to be sneezed at.
I'm not saying I'll never attend a party way out on the rim - however I don't tend to because of time constraints, and I suspect others may have similar reasons.
Re: I came to that same realization myself a while ago
Date: 2003-11-03 08:39 pm (UTC)I think you are a special case, WRT transit issues. But... I spent 2 1/2 to 3 hours a day commuting when I was at HSPH. It was non-trivial, but doable. And now I'd prefer that over 1 1/2 to 2 hours a day driving to and from Worcester.
could you re-explain the following to me? something doesn't parse...
1) Those who live in the city because they work there and the commute in from the 'burbs can SUCK depending on which burb we're talking.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-03 08:15 pm (UTC)As to the parties, I'm new enough around here that people don't invite me to things either. There's a certain truth to "make your own luck". In Columbus, the folks I hung out with just didn't throw parties. So, I did. And some were abysmal failures (ie the halloween party), others were raging successes (the March party). Good timing helps (though I see how that can be hard out here). But, 'if you build it, they will come'. Parties acquire reputations. Party hosts acquire reputations for hosting good parties. And a good party and a good host can be all the draw necessary to get bigger and/or better crowds every year. Assuming that's the sort of party you want to be at.
On the other hand, if what you want is a small intimate gathering of friends, host -that- party instead. And invite all the people you want close to you. And those that can show, will. And those that can't won't. And don't take it personally whatever their choice. Just invite them all back the next time. Talk it up, solicite feedback. One thing that helps is having a central theme to organize around. I find that 'food' is always a big draw. Or, if cooking isn't your thing (as it isn't mine), find a mutually agreeable centrally located restaurant that many are willing to eat at and invite folks out for a meal. Low mess, low fuss.
I understand your frustrations, and I can see how it looks to you the way it looks to you. Just saying, you'll drive yourself batsh*t looking at it that way. Make your own luck. *hugs* -H...
no subject
Date: 2003-11-03 08:30 pm (UTC)I considered hopping to three different parties on Saturday night and only ended up at one of them -- the one that was a 2-block walk away. :-} I should have gone to the Tech Squares class dance at Kresge on Sunday afternoon, but after working about a 50-hour week, I just couldn't cope with the idea of going anywhere except to band practice at 6:30.
I feel like I hardly have any free time anymore. Maybe this is what it's like to feel like an adult? Hmm.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-03 09:08 pm (UTC)i suspect a more-or-less-representative portion of the parties i do go to are in the 'burbs. my last two social times were in the 'burbs. one was a forty-five-minute drive to a half-dozen-people-sized event (i couldn't even bring along all my sweeties! :) and the other one was public-invite and a tad closer.
i will say that in both cases, i felt like *my* personal presence particularly mattered to the hosts. i may be being a bit vain here in at least one case :) but that has something to do with why i chose to go. i'm not that crazy about socializing in big groups, & i have cats that want attention at home anyway. but if i feel like it really matters to the people who are hosting whether or not i'm there, this regardless of invite policy, then i'll sometimes make an exception to my default hermitage and go to a party.
i do have some n of friends who live close by, and the threshhold for getting me to a party that's a five-minute walk is probably lower than getting to a party that requires a trip by car and coordination among us car-users. but not really by all that much.
i guess i can summarize my datapoints thusly:
a) i gladly travel to see my friends when i think it matters to us.
b) i *love* my household and its location. my life is much easier b/c i live on public transit. my house is a source of income rather than expense, and of companionship rather than isolation. i don't have any philosophical problems with suburbs, but i do like my house where it is.
c) big parties are currently not that important a part of my life.
(btw, neither p nor f nor k ever attended mit -- p worked there for a year or so though....i know steve and amy only very slightly, and i'm sure they don't give a rat's ass whether i attend their parties or not.)
no subject
Date: 2003-11-04 10:38 am (UTC)Occasionally Orthogonal
Date: 2003-11-03 11:11 pm (UTC)Well, it's about making time for them, too. I have plenty of time, not leading as interesting a life as some; there are plenty of people I know who are in primary relationships, secondary relationships, taking classes, working two jobs, feeding the homeless, reading to the blind, in a play, running or hosting events, in a band, or knitting jumpers for stray cats. Considering to what lengths they go to make sure there couldn't possibly be any time for anything or anyone else, is it any surprise I don't bother calling them, and wait in vain for them to call me?
Maybe it's an introvert/extrovert thing. Even when there are lots of social opportunities, I pad massive amounts of free time into my schedule, and choose events that do not mandate regular attendance, as I may just not be feeling social on any given day, and I have no idea from one day to the next. As such, I tend to jump to the conclusion that others can make room as easily as I can, leading to the occasional orthogonal conversation along these lines:
me(hopeful):Would you like to get together?(thinking today, tomorrow, this weekend)
them(interested, supposedly):Sure, how does three weeks from next tuesday between 7 and 9pm sound?
me:(disgusted):um, call me some evening when you're free.
(knowing: this will never happen, there are far too many other things higher priority in their lives.)
(thinking: "fuck you, have a nice life. bye.")
(chances of me asking again: zero.)
As such, here's the advice I keep trying to give myself: Don't assume other people are busy. At least call and confirm they're busy. You may be pleasantly surprised to discover you were a far higher priority in their lives than you gave yourself credit for. Besides, rejection is better than abandonment. Oh, and if they call you, make room for them, they could be thinking the same way and need the same reassurance.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-04 12:50 am (UTC)Just to emphasize a point - while I agree with Ann that the scene is becoming more populated with people who have less time for personal relationships other than their 'primaries' I've been finding that the way to combat that is to reach out and make personal connections with the people in the crowd you know and/or care about.
I've recently been making more time and have been really enjoying the results.
(FWIW this is not a needy grope as my social calendar is doing just fine - however, anyone with free time who'd like to get together for a dinner or a movie or whatever some evening is most cordially invited to drop me a line. It's been fun having face time with people who have largely been ghosts in the machine for years now :)
no subject
Date: 2003-11-04 08:21 am (UTC)I don't know how many people are in the susboid community, but it's certainly well over 50, which is still, practically speaking, way too many people to be able to consider them all good friends. Friends, perhaps. Acquaintances, definitely. People you like and enjoy spending time with, most likely. GOOD FRIENDS? Except for a few cases, I'd have to say that's doubtful.
I think it's possible to be close to someone everyone wants to be close to. BUT, that person has to want to be close to you - AND be willing to make a commitment to being close.
I think this sounds like a good thing to be talking about - both with your therapist, and with the people you are/want to be close to.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-04 10:32 am (UTC)There are several people within the community who *never* attend parties and have structured their social lives completely differently. They aren't necessarily "anti-social" although they are sometimes accused of being so. My ideal social life wouldn't necessarily go that far, but I see the attractions.
To some degree, I am constrained by