observations, perhaps a bit mournful

[quietann]

I've been thinking about weddings a lot lately. There hasn't been a potluck wedding in a while, at least not one we've been invited to. In fact, we've been invited to only one wedding since we got married. Yet people always tell us how wonderful our wedding was, what a great community event it was, and so forth.

I could easily fall into a dark hole of hurt over this, but I think I have realized that very, very few people have what it takes to do a potluck wedding. Yes, it's "easier" in some ways, because there don't have to be catering contracts, "closed" guest lists, being forced to work only with an approved list of Wedding-Industrial Complex vendors, etc. And it's a LOT less expensive. But, it is harder in that there are few locations where it's possible. The happy couple have to have a lot of backbone to stand up to older relatives (and more conservative guests in general) who might think it's "tacky" to ask guests to provide the food. It is not the right event for a bride who wants her wedding day to be her Speshul Dayyyyyyyyyyy. It's a Suspects party, but lots more complicated. It's sort of like Baitcon, but with a more specific focus, and (thank heavens) it only happens once.

I also got to thinking about the composition of the guests at the Hot Foods party. A lot of the old-time suspects friends I have have just stopped going, because it's too chaotic and crowded for such a bunch of introverts. I've been on the verge of not going myself, and it's probably only because I am married to Ben that I still go. My way to cope is to stay away from the heart of the party as much as I can. The gothlings and poly kids are cute, but at a party like that I have no way to find out if I'd want to ever hang out with them (or, more importantly, them with me). And I tend to assume that I would not. It all makes me feel old.

(At the same time, it's a credit to the hosts that they can make it work as well as it does. And like marmota I have found that a bit of alcohol helps me cope. I don't want to be going in that direction on a regular basis, because there are a lot of alcoholics in my dad's family, starting with dad himself, but I'd rather go to the party and cope by doing something I have some "issues" over, than not go at all.)

The "community circle" (if it ever existed) has been rent asunder, and I mourn for it.

Comments

[candle-light.livejournal.com]

I had no desire to have a potluck wedding. I feel a little slammed by the "Speshul Dayyyyyyyyyyy" comment, just because we chose a different route than you did. I certainly felt that we had a loving "community circle" surrounding us, even with catered food.

I think part of community is that it changes over time. I don't think it does anyone any favors to become a closed off entity. That gets claustrophobic, old & boring. If you don't like the crowds, don't go. If you'd like a different kind of gathering, then you probably need to do it yourself. If you'd like to get your "old-time suspects friends" together, you should do it, instead of counting on them showing up at someone else's party. I know smaller gatherings of older friends still happen when someone takes the time to bring people together.

P.S.

[candle-light.livejournal.com]

I did mean to say also that your wedding was lovely. I'm glad you got to have the event that you wanted to.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

I can't imagine you being too far into the "Speshul Dayyyyyyyyyyy" camp. That was more a reference to how the uber-culture seems to think a wedding should be. I wasn't around for your wedding, in any case...

I do wonder sometimes about "reciprocality" of wedding invites, though. And whether because Ben and I invited "everyone" that there are people who didn't feel any um, obligation, to invite us back? There were a couple of weddings in the year or two after ours where the happy couple had been at our wedding, and many of our friends were invited, but we were not.

Ben and I have made several attempts to get older friends together, and it's never worked out. (I think I have mentioned the "north of Boston" dinner he arranged, where the only suspects who showed up were from *south* of Boston... we did feel a bit snubbed by that.) Craftnite was serving the purpose quite well for a while, but the usual hosts have all gafiated in various ways, though it's probably temporary. Perhaps when the house is in better order, we will try again.

[roozle.livejournal.com]

I wanted to write a reply in this thread, but the points I wanted to make, I thought, were more appropriately made in my own LJ, feel free to come over and comment if you want.

[r-ness.livejournal.com]

Yet people always tell us how wonderful our wedding was, what a great community event it was, and so forth.

It was!

We actually went to another one a couple of years ago. I'm really fond of that type of wedding. But you're right, it does take some backbone. I'm glad some people have it.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

indeed. I am not holding my breath for another one, for the reasons mentioned in my original post.

[ceo]

I disagree that the "community circle" has been rent asunder. Hot Foods (and roozle and sunspiral's parties in general) tend to attract a lot of people from outside the mainstream Suspects crowd, because, well, they know a lot of other people too (mostly from the poly community).

And potluck weddings are really hard to pull off. We've had only four that I recall offhand: klingonlandlady and frobzwiththingz, me and gosling, lyonesse and iabervon, and you and deguspice, so I'm not sure I'd consider it a bedrock tradition of our community (plus, weddings almost always involve family and outside friends as well).

And, you know, we're all (well, most of us) still here, and we have a slow but steady trickle of newcomers. I'm sure there are some of us who are resistant to the latter, but I know from experience that a community that is unwelcoming to newcomers doesn't last.

And if I ever thought the community wasn't there anymore, such thoughts would have been banished forever by a) the number of people who showed up for our most recent move despite the last-minute rescheduling, and b) the amount of support we got when Benjamin was born and we had the associated medical eitage.

I do mourn for Baitcon, however.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

Briefly on the weddings issue -- yes. Exactly what I said -- that this is not a *tradition* per se. It is something I'd love to see more of, but for the logistical reasons mentioned, I know it's not happenning.

I don't think the community isn't there anymore. But it's a lot more scattered, and WRT Hot Foods specifically, there *is* a big split that I'd rather not see, but can't really do anything about.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

On newcomers -- I was a newcomer, once upon a time. But one more age-consistent with the others, at that time (I was 32, as opposed to in my early 20s). And much of the enthusiastic reception I got had more to do with being an Unencumbered Female than anything else, I am sure.

BTW part of the reason we *didn't* help with your move is that we knew you'd have sixteen zillion people more local to you show up :)

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

So... what can the community do to make Baitcon happen again? If it's down to a lack of time and cash on jbsegal et al's part it doesn't mean that it can't happen with others kicking in time & cash...

Re pot luck weddings, maugorn and patches023 had a pot luck reception that was open to all, though seating space precluded an open wedding invite.

[gingicat]

My own wedding was tiny because every time I thought about inviting relatives, I went into panic attacks.

I'm hoping that next year, we can have a potluck anniversary party, just for the crowd.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

oh gee, I understand that completely, though Ben and I both have small families and could have invited them in their entirety and still had them be less than 20% of the guests who attended.

I had a friend in grad school who had over 70 first cousins (she was from a Catholic family who largely obeyed the church's teachings on birth control). She and her guy, who had a very small family, had their wedding at a church with very limited seating (about 50 people) and then her parents gave them a reception in her home town, which had over 300 people, mostly her family members!

Putting on a wedding of *any* size is stressful, and not to be undertaken lightly. Ben and I did what worked for us, happily. Most people seem to.

[jim-p.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I hear you there. I could never quite figure out the social force-field lines that would make some gatherings sparse and others standing-room-only... except that I inevitably seem to find myself at the former... and I want to bump into lots of folks!

[quietann.livejournal.com]

it was really too bad that you couldn't be at our wedding. 170 people (about 140 suspects people), food, hugs, yum. But I understand that it really wasn't where your head was at, at the time....

[frobzwiththingz.livejournal.com]

there may not be any "social force field lines" as you call them. If the general consensus is that parties that are bustling with lots of people are "better" than parties that have fewer people, then the bustling parties will get more word-of-mouth recommendations than the sparsely attended ones. Why, look! Theres a Positive Feedback Loop there. [in both directions]

given an initial set of regular events with roughly equal attendance and "ratings", over time random chance and the positive feedback loop will pretty much guarantee that some of the events will dwindle and others will grow to enormous [and possibly even unmanageable] proportions. You can add influence in a given direction by being a noticeably good or bad host, but it's going to happen anyways regardless of that.

[frotz.livejournal.com]

I don't think your stated consensus is entirely correct. There seems to be a sustainable middle ground of events of a type which lack (and thus fail to attract those attracted to) the "bustle factor", but which do maintain a critical mass of those attracted to what one might call the "less bustling while still sustaining enough of a variety of interesting social intercourse to be willing to come back to factor".

I'm also willing to discard entirely a quantification of this dynamic in favor of a potentially stable event-bustle continuum, as well as an alternate assertion that the successful non-bustle-factor events are due to external constraints placed on their growth.

[awfief.livejournal.com]

*hugs* If I haven't already apologized for once being the young thang, I will now.

I saw you and deguspice at the party, but didn't have time to talk. Please consider this a personal invitation to my party this Saturday -- I'd like to see you, and talk with you and Ben and just generally hang out. You are great people.

I'm wondering why you went to the hot foods party. I can see why you feel the way you do, and I've gotten sparse attendance at my 'events' too -- just keep doing them, or personally invite people. Crafty day has been going on for over a year, and the average is 2-3 people, myself included. Last time we had 5 people, I was so surprised! Eventually you'll hit it, but you have to have many gatherings first. Nobody wants to go to the first (or 10th) one, but the 25th one, when all their friends have gone. . . .

Or invite people personally. People like it better when you say "I'm having a small potluck/gathering at my place. wanna come?"

I agree that suspects is losing it's predictability of who will be at what, because there are so many new people. Like Arisia is getting, Suspects is turning out to be so successful as to lose some of the things it once had. That's not to say new people aren't welcome, but it'd be great if we could have a new people spigot and only introduce the right rate. :)

[quietann.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply...

see, I don't think of you as "young" even though you are, because you're pretty mature for your age. The young things to me are the girls. Young female people in their late teens to early twenties who still have a lot of growing up to do. Seeing 40-something guys hitting on them just makes me twitch. Seeing a 40-something guy hitting on you wouldn't make me twitch.

Saturday, Ben is obligated to help run the Arisia party at Boskone, and I'll probably go with him. I will try to make it to a Crafty Day sometime, though, especially since Craftnite (my more regular crafty thing) has kind of dwindled, because 2 of the main hosts have new babies, and the third have gotten into another activity on Sundays that usually leaves them feeling pretty wiped out. I'm feeling pretty low-energy.

Ben actually used to have one or two parties each year, but we haven't done anything like that since the wedding. When the kitchen is done, we'll likely try hosting an open suspects party -- just to see who shows up (and to give us a reason to clean our *very* dirty house.) It's hard though, because there are a lot of non-open things going on, including among the people we are closer to, and we usually don't know about them until after they have happenned (in some cases because they are things we'd have absolutely no interest in, like play parties or sex parties).